I can't believe this was even introduced
I was sitting here reading this and the more I read, the more pissed off I became.
For anyone who doesn't want to follow the link, what I'm speaking of is HB1677, introduced by Delegate John A Cosgrove of Virginia.
Summary as introduced:
Report of fetal death by mother; penalty.
Provides that when a fetal death occurs without medical attendance, it shall be the woman's responsibility to report the death to the proper law-enforcement agency within 12 hours of the delivery. Violation of this section shall be punishable as a Class 1 misdemeanor.
Admittedly, it's not my state, but if this passes in Virginia, who's to say that other states won't follow suit.
As someone who's experienced a miscarriage before, I really find this intrusive. Based on the way this reads, any woman in any stage of pregnancy must report the loss of said pregnancy within 12 hours if the loss occurs without medical attendance. So if I lived in Virginia, would I call the police office each month when I begin menstruating just to be safe, because it could be a loss of pregnancy? I would hate to be charged with a misdemeanor crime for something I didn't know I did wrong. And when I call the police to file a report, will the person taking all the pertinent personal information be sensitive to the situation, or be a jackass?
As I stated before, I can't believe that this is even out there. It really needs to be cleaned up before it goes any further. In its current state, Virginia will have every woman who's past menarche and sexually active either calling the police monthly or in jail.
How idiotic. And this guy is an elected representative. Who does he represent? Certainly not me.
Edit(9/1/05): check the comments for additional new information.
For anyone who doesn't want to follow the link, what I'm speaking of is HB1677, introduced by Delegate John A Cosgrove of Virginia.
Summary as introduced:
Report of fetal death by mother; penalty.
Provides that when a fetal death occurs without medical attendance, it shall be the woman's responsibility to report the death to the proper law-enforcement agency within 12 hours of the delivery. Violation of this section shall be punishable as a Class 1 misdemeanor.
Admittedly, it's not my state, but if this passes in Virginia, who's to say that other states won't follow suit.
As someone who's experienced a miscarriage before, I really find this intrusive. Based on the way this reads, any woman in any stage of pregnancy must report the loss of said pregnancy within 12 hours if the loss occurs without medical attendance. So if I lived in Virginia, would I call the police office each month when I begin menstruating just to be safe, because it could be a loss of pregnancy? I would hate to be charged with a misdemeanor crime for something I didn't know I did wrong. And when I call the police to file a report, will the person taking all the pertinent personal information be sensitive to the situation, or be a jackass?
As I stated before, I can't believe that this is even out there. It really needs to be cleaned up before it goes any further. In its current state, Virginia will have every woman who's past menarche and sexually active either calling the police monthly or in jail.
How idiotic. And this guy is an elected representative. Who does he represent? Certainly not me.
Edit(9/1/05): check the comments for additional new information.
posted by carrie at 1/08/2005 06:29:00 a.m.
10 Comments:
Yeah, I read this on some other blog as well as discussed it a bit on one of the SMC lists...it is absolutely ridiculous if you ask me and I really don't even get what purpose it will serve...
thanks for bringing this up. i want to get this on the bioethics blog.
d
The more I think about this, the more ludicrous it seems.
I had a miscarriage prior to the birth of my son. I was miserable, in tears on the floor of my bathroom. I didn't feel like talking to anyone, not my husband, not my mother, not my sister, and especially not the police.
I really hope that this doesn't pass for the sake of the women in Virginia and possibly the sake of every woman in the US. Having a miscarriage is intensely personal and intensely emotional, and the last thing any woman should have to think about during that time is reporting the loss to the police. Especially since the majority of miscarriages occur in the first trimester. Mine happened before my first pre-natal visit. I was only about 8 weeks.
And the information required is equally ridiculous. I can understand if it was a late-term loss, but how is a woman who's just miscarried at 8,9,10 weeks honestly supposed to answer this:
# place of occurrence
# usual residence of patient (mother)
# full maiden name of patient
# medical record number and social security number of patient
# Hispanic origin, if any, and race of patient
# age of patient
# education of patient
# sex of fetus
# patient married to father
# previous deliveries to patient
# single or plural delivery and order of plural delivery
# date of delivery
# date of last normal menses and physician's estimate of gestation
# weight of fetus in grams
# month of pregnancy care began (sic)
# number of prenatal visits
# when fetus died
# congenital malformations, if any
# events of labor and delivery
# medical history for this pregnancy
# other history for this pregnancy
# obstetric procedures and method of delivery
# autopsy
# medical certification of cause of spontaneous fetal death
# signature of attending physician or medical examiner including title, address and date signed
# method of disposal of fetus
# signature and address of funeral director or hospital representative
# date received by registrar
# registrar's signature
# registration area and report numbers.
If you begin to miscarry, are you supposed to save everything so it can be analysed? I had no idea if it was male or female, if there were any congenital malformations, and I really didn't need or want to know.
And the best to me is method of disposal. How many of these reports will have the answer as toilet?
Just leave us be. We'll be back in the days of the menstrual hut before we know it.
Delegate Cosgove says he introduced it to reduce the number of "trashcan" babies that are born and abandoned. How do we get from babies born and abandoned to reporting a first-trimester miscarriage?
OMG, people the Commonwealth of VA has not lost its mind. The intent of this bill is to require notification of authorities of the DELIVERY of a baby that is dead and the mother has not been in the presence of a doctor or other healthcare professional. Notice the word DELIVERY. This does not apply to mis-carriages or your period.
Unlike some states the Commonwealth is tired of mothers abandoning full term babies after birth. These kids are left in trash cans, behind buildings, on door steps and usually die. The 12 hour reporting requirement is so the medical examiner can determine if the baby was born live or dead. If it can not be determined that the child was born live then the parent who abandoned the child can only be charged with improper disposal of a human body. The police have requested this addition to the already existing code that covers reporting of delivery of a stillborn child.
Once again the Conservative people are going to hold criminals responsible for what they do to children. If the child is DELIVERED stillborn and reported to a funeral home for burial or other appropriate agent or the DELIVERY occurs with a medical professional present the parent has no concerns. We deal with criminal!
I'm not saying that people who abandon their babies in a dumpster or where ever shouldn't be prosecuted as criminals if the child was still alive. I don't see how anyone could just leave a living, breathing baby somewhere, especially if that baby is one that you've carried inside as a mother.
My concern is the wording of "fetal death" with no additional qualifiers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but fetal death could occur any time from fertilisation until delivery. And different states and different agencies define fetal death in different terms.
In an attempt to differentiate between early pregnancy loss (spontaneous abortion) and later-term losses, both the World Health Organization (WHO) and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) have recommended that statistics for fetal death only include deaths in utero in which the fetus/fetal material weighs 500 g or more. The ACOG also recommends including deaths at 22 weeks gestation, although most other groups use 20 weeks.
Arkansas and Virginia are alike in that for statistical purposes, rather than using the information suggested above, all products of conception are considered in reporting fetal death.
If this were happening in say, Arizona, where fetal death is defined as the death of a fetus that weighs 350 g or more and has reached a gestational age of 20 weeks, that's more okay to me. You've reached a point in the pregnancy where it's more likely to be classified as a stillbirth rather than just spontaneous abortion.
To say that fetal death covers all products of conception is much too vague. My menstrual cycle could be a product of conception if there was a fertilised egg that just didn't implant. And so we go back to my initial argument that this bill needs to be cleaned up before it goes any further.
I'm not THAT liberal that I'm saying it's fine to leave babies in dumpsters. Just clean up the language of your legislation so that it's not so ambiguous that every woman in her reproductive years could end up in jail.
Carrie, the updated version at Chez Miscarriage includes a response from Cosgrove. You can read it here:
http://chezmiscarriage.blogs.com/chezmiscarriage/2005/01/calling_all_vir.html
YES!!
A step in the right direction. From Chez Miscarriage:
Cosgrove emailed Maura regarding this:
"The intent of House Bill 1677 is to require the notification of authorities of a delivery of a baby that is dead and the mother has not been attended by a medical professional. ... My bill in no way intends that a woman who suffers a miscarriage should be charged for not notifying authorities. ... However, after discussing the bill again with our legislative services lawyers, I have decided to include language that will define the bill to apply only to those babies that are claimed to have been stillborn and that are abandoned as stated above."
Oh, and by the way, I sent him an email regarding HB1677 and its ambiguous wording. Pretty close to what I posted here.
It's nice to know that someone out there actually reads those emails and responds.
Hi Carrie, the section you are referring to is only part of the overall section covering this topic. So while the wording does seem ambiguous it does have some definition in other sections. The law in the past has used the term "delivery" to define the difference between mis-carriage and birth. However I do know they are working to clear up misconceptions.
From a strictly legal standpoint the overall section of the VA Code is fine. But with all the coverage this one addition to one section is getting they will have to change the wording in the whole section of the code. I hate to waste Government resources to make things "public" friendly, but I guess in the internet age it is necessary.
Hope I did not come across to agressive in the last comment on this, I am working through a bitchin migraine.
Sorry to hear about your headache. I myself am working through a bitchin' case of PMS. :)
And no, I don't think you came across as too aggressive. You were simply stating your opinion on the matter. No need for any apologies.
Women's health and reproductive issues are just one of my "pet" causes, so to speak. I tried to do as much research as I could on this before just going nuts, and also before sending off the aforementioned email.
It's one thing to read something that someone's spun and to get angry. It's an entirely different thing when you've researched it as much as possible to find the truth and you're still angry.
What I'm still trying to figure out is how this is supposed to prevent "trashcan/dumpster" babies. Doesn't Virginia have a Safe Haven law on the books providing that you can take a baby to a hospital, or "rescue squad" (police, fire, etc.) and leave the baby there without any type of prosecution?
Generally speaking, fetal death occurs in utero. The fetus for one reason or another was not viable. Most women who plan to carry their babies to term would seek medical attention at the first sign of trouble. Those who have unintended or unwanted pregnancies might not, depending on how advanced in pregnancy they are. But the fact remains: the fetus is already dead. There's no living baby to put in a dumpster.
I don't know, I'll just wait to see what comes of this.
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